‘Gladiator’ screenwriter and card-
carrying Trekkie John Logan pumps
passion into a venerable sci-fi franchise.

by Mike Russell

Read the uncut Web-only interview here.

If there’s anything unique about me doing this movie, it’s that it’s the only one written by a fan who was literally weaned on ‘Star Trek,’” explains screenwriter John Logan. “It wasn’t a job; I’ve had plenty of jobs. I could work with anyone. I chose to do this because I am a fan.”

One of Hollywood’s most in-demand scenarists thanks to his work on the 2000 blockbuster “Gladiator,” Logan was brought into the Trek franchise by friend Brent Spiner, who plays “Next Generation” android Data. Spiner also brought Logan into “Trek” czar Rick Berman’s office – “a big fan going into the wizard’s lair,” as Logan puts it – and the trio set about trying to inject a little sex, violence and, with any luck, fan passion into the 10th “Trek” feature, “Nemesis.”

Directed by Stuart Baird – whose credits include the actioners “Executive Decision” and “U.S. Marshals” – “Nemesis” certainly seems destined to delight fanatics: For one thing, its script very consciously evokes the submarine-battle structure of fan-favorite “Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.” Set against the backdrop of a civil war within the shadowy and much-feared Romulan Empire, the new film features Captain Picard (Patrick Stewart) matching wits with Shinzon (Tom Hardy) – a charismatic villain with a curious resemblance to the Enterprise commander – and it culminates in a prolonged space-battle climax designed to put fannies in seats.

“I would like to think that ‘Nemesis’ hits all the right buttons – that it is eminently satisfying to the fans,” says Logan. “Because frankly, that’s my concern. I chose to do this because I am a fan. If the fans embrace it, then I have done my job, and I can say I’ve done right by ‘Star Trek’ and ‘Star Trek’s’ part in my life. If they reject what I’ve done, then I’ve made a serious miscalculation about what other fans like me want.”

Here’s what Logan had to say about his love affair with “Trek,” his rapid journey from Chicago playwright to Hollywood big-shot, and the curious announcement that he will be writing “Gladiator 2.” Yes, “Gladiator 2.”

From other interviews I’ve read, you sound really jazzed to be involved with “Star Trek: Nemesis."

Yeah. You know, I must say that I am. Because the reason that I wanted to do it is that I'm absolutely a lifetime fan of "Star Trek." I'm an absolute, to-the-core Trekkie. My introduction to "Trek" began with the original five-year mission, and it's been a major part of my life since then. And I'm very unapologetic about that - that it's always been a hugely important thing to me - and to get a chance to actually sort of go into that world and help shape that canon was really exciting to me.

Do you have any “Trek” memorabilia?

Well, yeah, some, I must confess. You know, when I was a kid, I just had everything. I was Captain Kirk for every Halloween as long as I can remember. I read the novels and I watched the shows and the movies, and I just thought it was the best.

So that moment when you got the gig - when Berman's saying, "We want you to write the next 'Star Trek' movie" - and it's an even-numbered movie [Logan laughs] - what was that moment like?

There was a lot that led up to that moment. Before I even went in to meet Rick, I thought very seriously about what makes an exceptional “Star Trek” story. So when I went in, I had a little bit of trepidation, because not only was I a big fan going into the wizard’s lair, I was also going in to say, “You know, let’s shake this up a bit.”

Were all the suggestions you had to "shake things up" used?

Yeah. The overarching concept I came in with was: “You know, time moves on, even for the crew of the Enterprise – and it should. Because we the fans want to see them grow, we want to see their careers advance, we want to see their personal relationships advance – and I think that should be the point of ‘Nemesis’ – to really totally embrace that, seize that, cherish that, and celebrate that.”

As you know, that’s a pretty scary concept for a quote-unquote “franchise” movie. But [Berman] loved that idea – because Rick is a very bold thinker about the “Star Trek” world. He’s willing to do radical things.

And from that point on, it was nothing but pleasure as I sat in the room with Rick and Brent Spiner and we worked out the story.

How many ideas did Brent Spiner have?

He was absolutely involved all the way through it; he was in every single story meeting. In football terms, Brent became my “go-to guy” – whenever we’d thought ourselves into a corner, that’s when I’d call Brent or sit down with him and say, “OK – Picard and Data are trapped on the villains’ ship; they can’t get off. What the hell do I do?”

And what’s great about Brent is his absolute lack of ego about Data – wanting this to be the best possible “Star Trek” movie, and what Data did was entirely secondary to any of that. Which is surprising in an actor. And I found the exact same thing to be true about Patrick Stewart.

At least up through “Insurrection,” Stewart had massive story input on these films.

Oh, yes – as well he should. Because of course it would be the height of audacity for me to say, “I understand the character of Jean-Luc Picard better than you do.”

I expected him to be savvy about Picard, but he was savvy about everything – about every element of the script. He’d say, “Is this right for Geordi?” or “Is this right for Deanna?” “Can’t we give Beverly more?”

It strikes me that, as a fan, having to deal with Stewart in a meeting could be sort of intimidating.

It was. [laughs] You know, I’ve dealt with my share of heavy hitters – but you’ve got to think, “You’re about to meet Jean-Luc Picard,” and as much as you say, “It’s only an actor and it’s only a part,” he’d walk in the room and it was still a little bit like, “Wow.”

My friends – who are all Trekkies, of course – say, “What was it like being on the bridge when you’re shooting the movie?” I said, “All of that was great – but the most overpowering fan experience I had was when we did screen tests for the various actors playing Shinzon. And they were done on-set in costume. And so Patrick walked in in his Jean-Luc Picard uniform. That’s when I was overwhelmed and I thought, ‘Oh, my God– I am really shaping the destiny of these characters.’”

Do you ever wish you’d been able to take a stab at writing the classic “Trek” series?

I think what would make me happiest would be to write lines for Captain Kirk. Of course.

The “Star Trek” and James Bond films share a lot in common in terms of the limits placed on creators. Both are controlled by producers; both have long-term production staff; both come freighted with a lot of “mythology.” How much did you feel constrained by that?

Well, I thought I was going to feel very constrained by that. My feeling was, “Man – this is a billion-dollar franchise for Paramount. They’re not going to let anyone monkey with it too much.”

I quickly found out that was not going to be the case with “Nemesis” – and it’s all because of Rick. His mind can immediately leap to the significance of small character moments and how they affect the whole canon of “Star Trek.”

I think a lot of fans probably have an image in their heads of an official “Star Trek” archivist sitting over your shoulder and telling you, “Well you can’t do that, because this button does that.”

[laughs] Well, no – because what was hysterical, in the meetings with Rick and Brent, is that it soon became apparent that I knew a lot more “Trek” minutiae than they did. They would be sitting there, and I would totally go into what they called “Trekkie mode” – like, suddenly say, “No, no, you can’t do that – because in Episode 54, we learned that Dr. Soongh made two prototypes, and the positronic network … .” And they would just sort of roll their eyes and wait for me to finish.

You know, before I sat down to write the first draft, I watched the entire “Next Generation” series over again.

The TV series?

Yeah.

Wow.

And they pay me for this! Hello?!

Of course, no “Trek” movie is going to satisfy every “Trek” fan – because we all have our different fascinations. I’ve always been fascinated by the Romulans, so therefore we don’t have Klingons [in “Nemesis”], we have Romulans.

And it’s high time, I say.

And it’s high time, I say, as well! But you know, all those Klingons are going to be camping out on my front lawn protesting. And I’ve always been a big fan of Picard, Data and Deanna. So they get the most attention in this movie.

It strikes me that “The Next Generation” and the original “Trek” both sort of ended up embracing that id/ego/superego triumvirate – where you had the guy who acted, who was Picard or Kirk; then the superego guy, who was Spock or Data; and then the id, who was Bones or Worf.

Yeah.

But you didn’t do as much with Worf in “Nemesis” as some of the previous films have.

Well, two comments: First, you’re dead-on right about that id/ego/superego thing, and that’s why I think “Star Trek” works – because I think that is an absolutely universal archetype that everyone responds to. If you talk to fans like [“Usual Suspects” director] Bryan Singer, that’s all they talk about.

Bryan Singer?!

Oh, yeah. Big, big “Trek” fan. He has a cameo in “Nemesis.” [Singer says,] “That’s what makes these stories universal – we all, every living person on the planet, have an id, ego, and a superego, and we understand the dilemmas between them. That is why the show has survived.”

The other part of the question is, “How do you treat all the characters fairly?” And that was a truly wrenching situation – because you have the original gang of seven; we also have a villain that demands a fair amount of screen time, with a very complex back-story where we’re introducing a new element to the Romulan world –

The Remans.

Yes. The Remans. Which is why there was even less time for our crew. And hard choices had to be made about who to focus on. In the original draft of this, all of the characters had story arcs – Beverly was involved, Worf was involved, Geordi was involved – and they all had significant character moments all the way through.

You even had a part for Wesley Crusher [a major character who abruptly relocated to a different plane of existence near the end of the TV series].

Absolutely! And as the editing continued, it became apparent we did not have time for all that. If I have a regret about “Nemesis,” it’s that those story arcs didn’t make it to the screen.

Are the actors pretty philosophical about it?

Oh, entirely. They’re complete pros. Every one of them, God bless them, has the same reaction, which is: “I just want a great movie. If I’m not featured, fine.”

Now you and [director] Stuart Baird are both sort of arrivistes in the “Trek” universe. What advantages did that give you?

The difference between Stuart and I is that I’d never done a “Trek” movie, but I had lived “Trek” for all these years, so it was absolutely in my blood. Stuart came to it totally fresh. I don’t think he’d even seen “Star Trek” before they started talking to him about doing this.

There was a set report about him thinking Geordi LaForge [a major human character from the TV series with oddly-hued artificial eyes] was an alien.

Yes, I’ve heard that. So in a way, we were a great pair: He came in totally fresh, wanting to make an incredibly exciting and moving motion picture. And I came in with the same goal, but with a slightly different tactic.

I think – I hope – [Paramount executives] realize this could be a really exciting “Star Trek” movie. They are giving extra money for optical effects, for example.

You may be the first “Trek” movie to have a larger budget than the previous one.

I actually don’t think that’s true. I think “Insurrection” will actually have had a bigger budget than “Nemesis” – which, when you see the movie, you won’t believe. Because it’s just astounding how big “Nemesis” looks for what it cost.

Now, by this point you’ve checked out that fantastic new “Trek II” DVD.

Oh, yeah.

On it, Harve Bennett talks about how they got so much for so little – recycling set elements and so on. Does that still go on?

[laughs] Oh, my God, yes. Everywhere you can possibly save money, it has to be done. There are sets that are re-dresses of other sets. We re-use the mammoth engineering set like five times as different things.

One of the things that helped is I specifically wanted to write a “bottled” show. My initial pitch to Rick was, “It’s a war movie, and the entire third act’s a battle. It’s the Enterprise and another ship, and they’re blasting each other to pieces.” Where that helps is that you spend a lot of time on ships, which are all sets. The Enterprise sets were almost all pre-existing, and the only location footage we did was Kolaris III, the desert planet – and that was a week in the desert. It was a happy benefit.

Bennett said it doesn’t matter if you re-dress the set, because the film’s not really about the set.

Exactly right. It’s about the characters.

Now I suppose you’ve also listened to Nicholas Meyer’s fantastic commentary on that disc.

Well, Nick Meyer and Jack Sowards, who wrote “Star Trek II,” are my gods. I mean, to me, that’s not only the best “Trek” film – I think it’s one of my favorite movies ever. And it’s the only movie I’ve ever seen where I’m guaranteed to cry every time I see it.

And my initial impulse – “Let’s see these characters move on with their lives” – is directly inspired by “Star Trek II,” with Captain Kirk getting glasses on his birthday and realizing, “Where am I now, and where do I want to be?” Also, the idea of the protagonist and the antagonist having a very personal relationship was inspired by not only years of classical dramatic literature, but also specifically by “Star Trek II.”

I must confess, I’ve seen the “Nemesis” script that was briefly leaked online, so I know what that relationship is, specifically.

That’s a very old script.

But the Internet has been something of a double-edged sword for you, because the Internet also helped create an advance buzz for “Gladiator.”

It’s not double-edged sword at all for me. It’s a single-edged sword: It’s theft. It’s the theft of intellectual property.

[When the script leaked,] I was outraged, I was angered, I was saddened, for two reasons: One is that no one wants to have their work judged in an incomplete state – and a screenplay turning into a movie is a very fluid animal. It’s like someone going to an artist when a painting is half-done and judging it. And the second thing is I just think it’s really unfair for the fans, because we spend as dramatists a lot of time figuring out how to tell a story and be surprising. And one hates to think that all that is being taken away in the very cold version of reading words on a page.

And the way your script unfolds, there are surprises.

Yeah. Is that going to keep people from seeing the movie? No, I don’t think so – because everyone knows things change, and I think if it whets people’s appetites to see the movie, I guess that’s good. But as a writer, I think it’s abominable. I would rather my friends who are the fans judge me on the basis of the final movie.

And how different is the final movie from the script?

Very. Very. It’s changed a lot in both production – where we would cut scenes and write new scenes and shift relationships – and in the editing, where things were moved around and punched up.

Did it ever occur to you to resurrect an old villain from the TV series?

No, because as much as I am honoring “Star Trek II” with every line of this movie, I can’t honor it that far, because that would almost be theft. And also, I wanted specifically a young, sexy, male villain, because we’ve never seen that in “Trek” before.

I’ve heard nice things about Tom Hardy as Shinzon.

Oh, he’s tremendous – and the scenes with him and Patrick are, I think, absolutely dynamite. I mean, talk about intimidation: Can you imagine, as a green actor, going in and acting three intense scenes with Patrick Stewart?

Our intention was, how can we make a villain as memorable as Khan? And the thing about Khan is, he has justification for what he does; he is not motiveless evil in the Coleridge/Iago sense. He absolutely believes he has a reason for what he is doing, based on the pain he has suffered, which he blames Kirk for. And we also thought it was important that Shinzon also have what he believes is a reason for everything he is doing.

Was there any trepidation about re-visiting the concept of cloning in the wake of, well, “Attack of the Clones”?

Well, no. I’ll tell you why: It’s because Rick and I liked the idea of a surrogate father/son relationship between Picard and the villain – and that’s the important thing.

For a while, I thought maybe Shinzon was a long-lost son of Picard’s – but obviously that is so against the canon of “Trek” that we could never get away with it.

Now, the way the “geek media” has spun it, “Nemesis” and the TV series “Enterprise” are really tasked with sort of saving the “Trek” franchise. Both come on the heels of the disappointments of “Voyager” and “Insurrection.” Did you feel burdened by the responsibility?

No, not at all – because I’m a big “Voyager” fan and I actually think “Insurrection” is underrated, so I didn’t feel that at all. I don’t think it was ever my job to save the franchise – because I don’t think it needs saving.

Is this the last “Next Generation” cast film?

The on-the-record answer is: It depends on how many fans see the movie. If the movie is popular, I guarantee you there will be a “Star Trek XI” – and I hope I will be involved in it.

Now, in this script you guys drew a lot from “Trek” history. I know, at least at one point, you had Wesley Crusher showing up at a wedding, and you’ve got a cameo from Admiral Janeway from “Voyager.” Are there any other little surprises?

There are a few little surprises – mostly in terms of references the fans are going to enjoy. One of the fun things for me is winking at the other fans, and most of the general public doesn’t know what that means, but you and I get it – because you and I know what a Tholian is, or what Romulan ale is.
Clearly, the biggest way I seized “Trek’s” past is by inventing the Remans, because it’s something that’s mentioned once, in [the classic “Trek” episode] “Balance of Terror.” I said, “Wait a minute – the Romulan Empire is two planets. We see them in the bird of prey’s claws in the Romulan logo. What the hell is Remus?” And I thought, “How fun to explore that?”

Now, let’s talk about your career for a minute. From reading your Internet Movie Database listing, here is your astonishing career arc: You write two TV movies. You write the Lou Diamond Phillips camp classic “Bats.” And then, within a year, you’re working for Oliver Stone on “Any Given Sunday.” And co-writing “Gladiator.” And now you’re working on “The Last Samurai” with Tom Cruise. Was the speed of your ascent a bit shocking?

Um, to a certain extent. Because the reality is that I’d been working on “Any Given Sunday” for years, and I wrote “Bats” as a sort of little toss-off thing. So that chronology doesn’t reflect what my life really was.

My life was that I was a playwright in Chicago – and I still live in Chicago – for years and years and years, and thought it would be really cool to write a movie. And through various permutations, I met with some agents at CAA with some film ideas, and one of them was “King Lear” in the NFL. And they said, “Is that a football movie?” And I said, “Yeah.” And they said, “Well, write that.”

And so I spent a year writing “Any Given Sunday.” And in the course of that year, I also worked on “Tornado!” – exclamation point! – and various other things to make money while I was working on “Any Given Sunday.” And once Oliver read it and said, “I want to do your movie,” then that was the life-changing experience.

Is it frustrating when you go to Hollywood after you’ve been writing plays for years and people like me say, “Oh, look! He popped out of nowhere!”?

No, not at all. I’d spent 10 years learning my craft, and I’m just a professional writer. How I’m perceived doesn’t matter to me in the slightest. I don’t live in L.A., I don’t go to parties, I don’t go to openings. I just keep my head down and do my job. Because I spent all those years working with directors and actors and producers on plays, I know how to collaborate – and I know what my position in the Great Beast is.

Now, I just heard the big announcement about “Gladiator 2.” Good heavens.

Isn’t that exciting?

Yeah. I must say, I share the world’s curiosity …

[laughs] Yeah. My sister just called me and said: “But he died!”

You know, “Gladiator” was a long and interesting process. And once we sort of realized what we had, there was a lot of talk even then about how this could be a multi-generational saga – because the things that happened after the death of Commodus are absolutely thrillingly exciting. So it was not a frivolous decision of, “Oh – the movie made a lot of money. Let’s somehow ground out a sequel.”

There are frankly clues in the first movie about what the second movie is going to be – and threads that are left open to be picked up.

The one thing I would be thinking, off the top of my head, would be when they talked to Russell Crowe about the legions that could invade Rome and take it back – and we never saw that happen.

Maybe. [laughs] DreamWorks will hunt me down if I tell. Don’t worry – you’ll see a script on the Internet soon.